29 Apr 2011 06:46:52 PM: this isn't just a vodafone/3 problem, similar issue with Telstra here, in December I moved from Burleigh Waters to Robina, terminated my telstra account, as I no longer needed a landline, in mid-January I received a bill of $158-something from Telstra, paid it, and that was the end of that, or so I thought.
Today I received a Final Demand from "Specialised Recoveries" demanding a Telstra debt of $66.37, with the account number of my burleigh waters telstra account. I rang the 1-800-285-773 number, and that connected me to Telstra. A person with an Indian accent, very polite and helpful chat, and quite easy to understand too, which is a welcome change, said there was an outstanding amount from the past bill. I said there was a bill of $158-something, and that had been paid. I asked him to look up billing details and payment details, and he confirmed there was a payment of $158-something and the balance then was zero, but in February and March there was additional billing data, which had been unpaid. WTF? Don't they have to send a statement or an invoice for that? He said here was no billing data available for these, only that there was an outstanding amount of $66.37 in that account.

The "Final Demand" asserts that "we may provide your payment default to a credit reporting agency, blah blah blah" and that this will become part of my credit history file for 5 years and will be available to authorised parties such as credit providers.

I asked him whether he was able to provide me the particulars of the outstanding amount. What was it? Line rental charges? Calls? The account was closed at the end of december, no more calls, no more activity on the account...

OK, I know that most Aussies are stupid morons (look at the politicians this pathetic excuse of a nation elects into power and how they manage things - just like ordinary aussie scum live their lives, no idea...) - I mean how can a company send out a final demand without sending out a statement of account, and upon non-payment of same, a reminder ???

One thing is for certain, they will NOT BE PAID if the numbers don't add up - how can you terminate a service, and then some months later suddenly accrue other charges? Why the fuck to I pay taxes to this loser nation when there are no government laws and regulations to prevent big businesses from attempting to extract money from people like this? If I did this to my clients they would report me to the Fair Trading office, or attempt to have me charged for attempting to gain financial advantage through deception. I'm eagerly awaiting my telstra account detailing how this $66.37 outstanding account was calculated from a final bill that had a $158- something amount, and proof of payment that was acknowledged by this telephone operator, who could not extract particulars of how they came to the $66.37 outstanding amount ???

Sorry for being so pedantic, most of you would just say hey screw this, I don't want my credit rating tarnished, I better pay it, so stupid aussie moron pays it without much more than a whinge or two..

THIS IS PRECISELY THE REASON why we have the woes that so many people are whingeing about, rising electricity prices, high cost of living, and such, when you have a nation consisting of mostly braindead, stupid people who have no idea how things work in the real world. Can't wait to see the last of your stupid country, love the beaches, love the surf, the climate, but the way of life in this place, eeeech, no honesty, no integrity. Sting 'em for what they're worth, it's the aussie way. No thanks, FK off, not for me thank you very much. Mum and Dad went back 8 years ago citing that "if we stayed here, we'd become like them" . Bingo ! Stupid me thought differently, I considered myself as a proud immigrant Aussie, how sadly wrong I was, was thinking of wiping my ass with the aussie passport, but my ass is not worthy of being wiped with something as disgustingly pathetic as an Australian passport.

29 Apr 2011 07:36:11 PM: lol. I'm as despondent about things as you are. Just look how long the ACMA takes to act. I actually called the ACCC to see if they were doing anything about Vodafone. They said "you'll have to write to a minister because it's beyond our control cause Vodafone haven't actually broken any laws".

Sorry our country let you down, it's regulators are letting us all down.

PS my friend from another country (to whom I actually recommended Vodafone - agghh) had exactly the same experience as you did. He knew Vodafone from overseas and thought it to be a very good company, but then, welcome to Australia, where our regulators are half asleep.....

29 Apr 2011 07:41:18 PM: PS the regulators (ACCC, ACMA) will say "the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman" is there to help you (which is true). But why TF should we have to spend all day complaining to them to get anything done. And besides, no-one has even heard of the TIO! (11% awareness according to their website! - imagine if only 11% of people knew of the police, crims would have a field day, it's the same thing but companies are having a field day!)Cash bonanza screwing chilled out Aussies and tourists - it's complete BS! ACCC and ACMA have to step up.

29 Apr 2011 11:03:13 PM: and you stupid people just don't stand up and say NO - can't wait till I'm cashed up a little bit more and leave your loser country behind once and for all. Parents left 8 years ago, I thought this was a great country, yes it is, but unfortunately it's the people here.... Everything here is a result of the people. Dumb people = ineffective Government = poor service. I admire the guy who punched out a shop assistant over the missing chicko roll - he deserves a medal, because the dweeb who served him should have done his job properly, what he is being paid to do, but this stupid backwater pathetic excuse of a nation makes the shop assistant look like the victim and the person whom he was meant to serve look like the crim. This is so pathetic. If I'm a pizza store owner, and you ordered a ham and cheese pizza, and I charged you normal price, say $19, yet you get only ham and next to no cheese on your pizza, and I argue the point and demand payment of $19, but you get upset, refuse to pay, then me goes to the authorities to help extract the full $19 out of you... Yep Australia = loser country full of losers. I am so grateful for dual citizenship. I wasn't born here, and I have travelled extensively, yes I've been spoilt, but I could never stoop so low as to call myself an aussie. Google 'the swiss way' - I rest my case, RAISE the bar peoples. If your phone company's NOT giving you service, and you're getting constant drop-outs, poor network speed and such, DON'T pay your bill, write to them and tell them so, and complain to the T.I.O. - at least if it's a valid complaint with substance, your credit rating is unlikely to be shot, and you'll probably be let out of your contract, telcos tend to listen to the TIO, they cut and paste their response to the telco to release Joe Bloggs out of their contracts, guess what, they usually do, because most aussies are morons and pay their bills as they are told, and keep on complaining. It's a tiny minority who take the initiative to stand up for their rights, and then complain to the T.I.O., so if you're taking your grievances to the T.I.O., you will get results because so few people in this country have a brain between their ears, the telco's status quo remains unchanged, yeah release him, won't affect our bottom line or shareholder returns, keep the peace because most people here wouldn't know whether they're coming or going, they're too dumb. Right on the button. ACCC and ACMA won't step up, because they're part of the game.

29 Apr 2011 11:15:16 PM: 07:36:11 PM: the regulators are a govenment department, they are the direct result of democracy, stupid people vote for stupid governments. This country is inhabited by mostly stupid people. You, me and a whole bunch of others here are a tiny minority. Civil disobedience is the answer, as another poster said, why TF do we need to waste our time spending all day complaining to them to get anything done. I'm from Switzerland, consumer sensitivity over there is very high, telcos know this, because even when there are problems normally beyond their immediate control, such as bad weather, or some dick cutting through a cable affecting services, the delinquency rate in blling shoots through the roof. D2 and Swisscom spend considerable resources monitoring network performance and building redundancy into their networks because they know if they don't provide effective and acceptable service, the numbers of people who then refuse to pay their bills, or just say FK you and change carriers, goes though the roof. Cousin works as Ascom who does a lot of their basestation work, and my niece works at D2 accounts and concurs. Network outages and congestion problems are SERIOUS problems as their credit and collections departments go into overdrive. And over there, people don't put up with spending their time waiting on the phone, pressing buttons and getting frustrated, the average hang-up time is 2'30 (two minutes and thirty seconds), you keep your customer waiting on the phone for more than that, and the likelihood of you having to chase that debt through the collection process and then on to small claims through the courts, skyrockets. Telcos usually won't take things that far because the delinquency rate with court ordered demands are almost as high as they are pre-court. People there don't take shit like aussie do, that's why network performance is better, that's why governments listen, people say no to the bureaucratic process and the law almost as much as they do to private enterprise. So government and business keeps that bar (of quality of service and customer service so much higher than here), as my parents said before they left Australia and went back home. Love the climate, love the beaches, love the diversity of nature and Australia's awesome beauty, but if we stayed there, we'll become like them. Bingo!

30 Apr 2011 12:32:39 AM: I couldn't agree more with every single thing you've said!

Aussies, by nature, don't complain - it's built into our psyche. What really needs to happen is for the people we pay our taxes to (ACCC, ACMA) to ACTUALLY pull these telcos into line. They need to be rigorous, and if they want to bother with a TIO (which they should), it needs to be widely advertised so that every man and his dog knows that they can go there immediately if they have a problem.

Initially there'll be heaps of complaints, but 1-3 years after making these changes, complaint levels will settle back to pleasingly low levels, as shitty telcos (like Vodafail) are pushed the f*ck out of the marketplace, and only decent ones remain.

Trust me, we Australians don't "complain" a lot by nature, but we sure as chips pay taxes, and expect those departments receiving them to damn well do their job!! And that is, to regulate the bloody market so we don't have more Vodafails!

30 Apr 2011 12:42:26 AM: you know another way to look at it, is just that Vodafone could just turn around and say get f*cked Australia - you make these laws, we obey them, then you arc up at us - WTF??

Vodafone hasn't broken any laws, not as far as the ACCC or ACMA are concerned, so what's Australia complaining about?

30 Apr 2011 11:19:23 AM: I agree that we whinge but dont complain appropriatley. The issue with govt departments like the TIO is that we look at the govt as useless as any one else if not more so, so we think what the hell is a govt dept going to be able to do for us.
Also, telcos or anyone else should have to apply to courts to have our credit rating affected. I had an argument with a bill with telstra over 10 years ago. They then cancelled my contract on me and sent me a 1300 bill which i refused to pay. So they put me on the credit report as owing money. I couldnt get a single loan for 5years!!!! I wanted to take them to court but didnt have the money to fight them.

The TIO at the time was usesless.

1 May 2011 12:11:36 AM: I agree, mostly. I hostestly don't think the TIO is the problem, but the problem is that people need to know about it.

Making a complaint takes 5 minutes, and telcos are fined every time we complain. This hurts them so they don't want us to complain.

The issue arises when people don't know about the Ombudsman, and don't bother to use it, which is an absulutely huge issue. Official stats (have a look on the ombudsman reports) state that awareness of the ombudsman service is 12%. Let me repeat that: 12%. Meaning, that at least 88% of people DON"T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.

Now that we've established that, let's go on...

If 9/10 people don't even know about it, how many are actually complaining? 1/25, 1/50??? Who knows, but it can't be very many.

IF it's 1/40, for instance, that means Vodafone can mistreat 40 customers before they get one of them actually getting off their bum to complain to the ombudsman. The ombudsman will then issue a fine of *shock/horror* $62 to Vodafone.

In essence, Vodafone get fined $62 for pissing of 40 customers!!!!!! I know for a fact that they made about $400 off me before I finally called it quits with their sh*thouse service, so I effectively paid their costs for another 250 unhappy customers!!

How is that ever going to discourage them???? Vodafone have no incentive to treat customers properly.

The solution, let's take an example. Red light cameras are a good disincentive to running red lights because those who brake the law know they'll likely get caught and face a fine. But what would happen if only 1/40 people who ran a red light got caught??? People would be far more willing to run red lights cause the chance of getting caught is so slim. And how does this apply to Vodafone? Because vodafone know the chances of getting caught when they treat customers appaulingly is so slim, simply because not very many people can report them (because noone knows about the TIO).

I don't know how the TIO hasn't been blasted through our airwaves, put on TV ads, peppered across banner ads on web pages and plonked right into the major newspapers with half page ads! If ACMA did this, I wonder how long it would take the telcos to pull up their socks!!